Wow. I guess it's time to weigh in..

I would be wary of a person who brands someone else with an epithet like "bully" but cannot offer a reasonable, coherent definition of the term.

I would be alarmed over an active member of GP (which espouses and honors free speech) who advocates the censorship of other members simply because his ego is bruised. That sounds much more like bullying than my use of satire.

A bully is someone who ridicules
And mocks another, who attempts to
spread hate or denigrate another,
Either verbally or physically and emotionally
Asif your comment indicates you are a bully

Let me explain why

You're trying to reduce me in front
of others - a typical bully tactic

You started off with doing that with your
mocking poem and you do it again above

you're a perpetrator now trying to
gather support and I'm sure you'll
Find that amongst some- big deal

It's not that my ego was bruised
It's that you did not constructively
criticize my poem and instead mocked it

Weigh in as much as you like
Gather your supporters
but the decent way to comment on a
fellow Poets poem is to provide
a review - not to mock

But it appears mocking is your style
and that is what is weak about you
Unable to constructively review and be
mindful of fellow poets

You left sarcastic comments on my other
Poem and were not behaving in the spirit
of GP rather denigrating

So it's not about bruising my ego
Because its everyone's responsibility to
provide decent feedback - you can be as
critical as you like on any poem as long
as you give feedback constructively

Your comment "I'd be wary...."
Is another attempt to gather support
and see if you can oust me

I would suggest its your ego looking
For a stroking - I don't like you and
I blocked you because of your infantile
comments on my poems - you didn't like
Being blocked - got angry and that began
Your journey of further ridicule

Imagine if everytime someone didn't like a
Poem they wrote a counter poem using
a mocking tone - not a decent approach

I'm not gonna debate this issue - that's my
Response and I'm glad I blocked you
As that's a permissible thing to do

Goodbye

My question is this:

Since when does "satirizing a poem" mean "bullying the poet?"

My poems are not me. I am not my poems. I've had poems of mine satirized. Sometimes it stung, but I try not to take it personally.

The separation of "my poem" and "me as poet" is important if I'm ever going to take feedback seriously. Otherwise, I'd be perpetually offended anytime someone criticized one of my poems. And I'd only ever listen to feedback that reinforced my vision and made me feel good.

Tony you're missing the fact that what preceded
the what you call satire poem were
remarks by Asif on my poems
that were in themselves not constructive

I think it's all to easy to dismiss a
persons claims about feeling bullied

It's like when a women is raped and
complains - everyone minimizes the victims
complaints

There should be no room for cyber bullying
and to dress it up as satire is wrong

Asif was not writing satire of my poem
It was a form of cyber bullying because
he started leaving uncalled for remarks
on my other poems

Tony one knows when someone is
being denigrating - you might like
Being satired and quite honestly
I welcome that too

But, Asif was approaching me with malice
and that's unacceptable by any standards
As a human being feeling Safe is a basic
necessity
As a writer on a website the same standard
Should apply

If you are a curator you should be
promoting people feeling safe
Otherwise it becomes a free for all

I believe in freedom of speech I just don't
See why that means not protecting
writers from cyber bullying

There seems to be denial that bullying
Exists - well it does and it's alive and well
on GP as everywhere else
In schools - corporations - websites

I'd like to see a cyber bullying policy
developed on GP- forget my situation
There are poets being bullied
By other poets - it's fairly common
and reasonable steps could be taken to
raise awareness that it's not appropriate

Doris was on site 2 days and experienced
being bullied

Are you going to minimize every time
someone complains of feeling bullied

Cyber bullying is a fact
To excuse it and dress it up as satire
or pretend it's not happening isn't right

Protect the victims of bullying
Not the perpetrators

Ilan wrote:

Doris was on site 2 days and experienced being bullied Are you going to minimize every time someone complains of feeling bullied Cyber bullying is a fact To excuse it and dress it up as satire or pretend it's not happening isn't right Protect the victims of bullying Not the perpetrators

Ilan... Who was the bully in this said bulling? There was a satire written that was taken the wrong way and I did that. There was no bullying intended. So are you calling me a bully? You are now hurting my feelings? BWP... I will PM you later...

James we are getting our wires crossed
Cause u aint a bully
U a humanitarian and a gentleman
I never said that of you
I'd say this thread is worn
We have had plenty discussion
Time to pause
Reflect

BrokenWordsPoet wrote:

Ilan wrote: Doris was on site 2 days and experienced being bullied Are you going to minimize every time someone complains of feeling bullied Cyber bullying is a fact To excuse it and dress it up as satire or pretend it's not happening isn't right Protect the victims of bullying Not the perpetrators Ilan... Who was the bully in this said bulling? There was a satire written that was taken the wrong way and I did that. There was no bullying intended. So are you calling me a bully? You are now hurting my feelings? BWP... I will PM you later...

If you think that I called you a bully. I did not. I assumed by this comment that you thought that I did. I tried to pm you to reassure you, but it seems that I am on your blocked list. *shrug.

In addition, I would have preferred not to have had my name drug into this conversation/discussion.

James don't be crazy you aren't on
My block list, why would you be
You've always been terrific

Ilan wrote:

James don't be crazy you aren't on My block list, why would you be You've always been terrific

Ilan... You can delete this reply of yours for surely I am crazy... My comment did not come from a place of sensitivity. There are times that reading between the lines could come in handy. I thought you knew I have a thick skin. You have to do better than that to hurt my feelings. In no way have you hurt my feelings. I thought that maybe you was misinformed on what happened getting the wrong picture without knowing factually. The word insult came up but never the word bullying. I would had rather the subject had not come up again.

(I have a very short block list, actually I hate seeing anyone on it. I cannot stand sarcasm unless it is mine.) That line is best read with an American southern accent. If you have seen the movie Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, filmed in Savanna Giorgia, the exaggerated voice of Kevin Spacey.

I do think it is time for this thread to end. Big fucking chance.

This thread is truly worn, no more posts
I'm off to the beach!
Cheers James,
Ilan

Ilan wrote:

A bully is someone who ridicules And mocks another,

Then politicians, standup comedians, radio talk show hosts, tv animators, etc..are all bullies.

Quote:

who attempts to spread hate or denigrate another, Either verbally or physically and emotionally

Spread hate? Are you kidding? Does disagreeing with you, or not liking something you wrote, mean that I have spread hatred?

Quote:

Asif your comment indicates you are a bully

And yours indicate that you are a milquetoast and narcissist.

www.gotpoetry.com/Poem...tml#482994

www.gotpoetry.com/Poem...tml#485256

www.gotpoetry.com/Poem...tml#486468


I

AsIf wrote:

Ilan wrote: A bully is someone who ridicules And mocks another, Then politicians, standup comedians, radio talk show hosts, tv animators, etc..are all bullies. Quote: who attempts to spread hate or denigrate another, Either verbally or physically and emotionally Spread hate? Are you kidding? Does disagreeing with you, or not liking something you wrote, mean that I have spread hatred? Quote: Asif your comment indicates you are a bully And yours indicate that you are a milquetoast and narcissist. www.gotpoetry.com/Poem...tml#482994 www.gotpoetry.com/Poem...tml#485256 www.gotpoetry.com/Poem...tml#486468 I

I have from the start questioned the sensitivity of Ilan here. Now I must question the sensitivity of both poets. If a lesson here is to be learned about sensitivity, I sure would like to see it come to an end. Lesson learned and move on. To continue trying to prove nothing took place that can be called bullying here took place. No bullying took place that was intended, we take your word for it.

I for one understand satire and how it can bite you in the ass. That is the chance one takes when writing satire. I agree with you that comedians do it all the time and I am sure comedians hurt peoples feelings also when all of us sit back and laugh at someone else, not feeling their feelings. Why continuing this thread makes no sense to me and why one would want to make an ugly thread in the first place uglier by piling more and more on. We must say lesson learned and now moved on. BWP... Asif no shame in satire as long as we carry it no farther... I don't think you are a bad person.

There is something that is missing in all of this. Bullying is a perceptional matter. There is no defined rule as to how one will perceive or should perceive bullying, because we all come from different experiences. Its like product dilution..do i think its stupid..yes...do I see it as an evil necessity in order to protect one's own product...yes..granted poetry is not a Pepsi..hence why we are allowed to imitate styles, barrow words...but as far as we feel about our poems...are they really so different? Perhaps if someone is not used to criticisms, they would see it as a harsh attack on their intellect, and their soul.

But again, its not for me to say what is bullying for another person...
Me, personally, I've received death threats and was told to make sure I lock my doors....This is because I enjoy messing with tea-baggers by providing evidence on why they are wrong...was I asking for it..Yes...was it still cyber bullying...yes...on both parties...because I put out something fully knowing what I was getting myself geared up for. I am sure Iian, that when you wrote this poem, you knew some people wouldn't get it...that they would make fun of it? Now by writing it, were you bullying no...but in a way the more i think about...i think this post is in a way a form of social bullying.

to everyone one else is it right to delegate Iian feelings or emotions. He says he was bullied, so guess what he was bullied. He felt threatened, and that means something.
Asif did a parody..okay..do we criticize all parody? Who's willing to throw out their copy of Don Quixote..not me.

To Asif and Iian
First off Sorry Asif for calling you a sad sack. That was wrong, and I was trying to make Iian feel better, yet that is no excuse. Again, I am truly sorry.

Second, Asif, I am sure that by writing your parody, you didn't mean to make Iian feel bullied, however, you were simply trying to point out that you really didn't care for his poetry...(which is constructive in its own form) however, you did make someone else feel bullied...and that's something that should be fixed...isn't it?

Iian, you realize that by taking this into a public form that perhaps it might not fair well for your poetry page (because people will now be frightened to comment on your poetry...which is why I was trying to get you to fight back)... however, the main issue...Censorship in this case...is a form of bullying, as well as, and sometimes, when we call someone else a Bully...and they aren't seen as such... then we are seen as trying to play a social game of exclusion. so posting this on here..is a bit much...no? And there should be some kind of resolution...for Asif's sake.

I am sorry if I have stepped out of line, but this tread has gotten ridiculous and I had to apologize to Asif...

Lyla wrote:

There is something that is missing in all of this. Bullying is a perceptional matter. There is no defined rule as to how one will perceive or should perceive bullying, because we all come from different experiences. Its like product dilution..do i think its stupid..yes...do I see it as an evil necessity in order to protect one's own product...yes..granted poetry is not a Pepsi..hence why we are allowed to imitate styles, barrow words...but as far as we feel about our poems...are they really so different? Perhaps if someone is not used to criticisms, they would see it as a harsh attack on their intellect, and their soul. But again, its not for me to say what is bullying for another person... Me, personally, I've received death threats and was told to make sure I lock my doors....This is because I enjoy messing with tea-baggers by providing evidence on why they are wrong...was I asking for it..Yes...was it still cyber bullying...yes...on both parties...because I put out something fully knowing what I was getting myself geared up for. I am sure Iian, that when you wrote this poem, you knew some people wouldn't get it...that they would make fun of it? Now by writing it, were you bullying no...but in a way the more i think about...i think this post is in a way a form of social bullying. to everyone one else is it right to delegate Iian feelings or emotions. He says he was bullied, so guess what he was bullied. He felt threatened, and that means something. Asif did a parody..okay..do we criticize all parody? Who's willing to throw out their copy of Don Quixote..not me. To Asif and Iian First off Sorry Asif for calling you a sad sack. That was wrong, and I was trying to make Iian feel better, yet that is no excuse. Again, I am truly sorry. Second, Asif, I am sure that by writing your parody, you didn't mean to make Iian feel bullied, however, you were simply trying to point out that you really didn't care for his poetry...(which is constructive in its own form) however, you did make someone else feel bullied...and that's something that should be fixed...isn't it? Iian, you realize that by taking this into a public form that perhaps it might not fair well for your poetry page (because people will now be frightened to comment on your poetry...which is why I was trying to get you to fight back)... however, the main issue...Censorship in this case...is a form of bullying, as well as, and sometimes, when we call someone else a Bully...and they aren't seen as such... then we are seen as trying to play a social game of exclusion. so posting this on here..is a bit much...no? And there should be some kind of resolution...for Asif's sake. I am sorry if I have stepped out of line, but this tread has gotten ridiculous and I had to apologize to Asif...

I think I am in love with you now, Lyla.

Lyla wrote:

Me, personally, I've received death threats and was told to make sure I lock my doors....This is because I enjoy messing with tea-baggers by providing evidence on why they are wrong...was I asking for it..Yes...was it still cyber bullying...yes...on both parties...because I put out something fully knowing what I was getting myself geared up for.

You were threatened with violence for expressing an opinion. I don't think you "asked for it". Nothing justifies that.

You have a legitimate complaint. It's a whole different realm than what Ilan is whining about.

Quote:

He says he was bullied, so guess what he was bullied. He felt threatened, and that means something.

He felt threatened? Based on what? The fact that a stranger on the internet didn't like something he wrote? Did he think I was going to book a plane to Australia so I could kick his ass over an inconsequential piece of writing?

Quote:

First off Sorry Asif for calling you a sad sack. That was wrong, and I was trying to make Iian feel better, yet that is no excuse. Again, I am truly sorry.

No worries. I have a thick skin.

Quote:

Second, Asif, I am sure that by writing your parody, you didn't mean to make Iian feel bullied, however, you were simply trying to point out that you really didn't care for his poetry...

The reason I wrote the parody was because Ilan blocked me. He loves the attaboys slathered on him by his friends. But he is unprepared to take a little heat when someone has the audacity to question his brilliance.

Quote:

however, you did make someone else feel bullied...and that's something that should be fixed...isn't it?

"Fixed"? How, exactly?

I thoroughly respect your honesty and posture.
No one is perfect. Some don't like being reminded of that.

Doris I love you too

Asif If you wear a steak on your arm don't be surprised if the lions attack once you step in the lions den...especially if all the lions are ragging illiterate psychos who have been looking for a reason to use their double sawed-off shotgun... so yeah luckily no one's stopped by, it was just all talk.

What I was trying to say and I think that got missed somehow..was this...
in my case, I knew what I was doing. I went in to instigate a conversation, knowing that everyone that was involved would not have their minds changed. Its called trolling and I'm great at it....like writing poems that take you 5 minutes (if that) to put together in order to really piss off the person your mimicking. Don't tell me that you didn't want Iian to read it and be pissed..and even if you didn't... he did..and tragically it ended like this.

Do I think what you did was wrong..nope.
Do I think your a bad guy..nope.
Do I think you meant to hurt someone else's feelings...nope.
Did it happen..yup.
Is the feeling valid..yup. because all feelings are valid..though not always rational..in fact they laugh at logic. So maybe not here..but in an IM...maybe that's a way to fix it...but it should be fixed... its sad and tragic and worse. if someone ends up leaving because of this silliness and I am not talking about you or Iian..and yes I've seen that happen too...and its tragic.

But yeah, I'm sorry to come on preachy, I'm nobody's mama..and I don't plan on being one anytime soon..so yeah...its just something to think about..and its just my opinion. Its just sad to see all these nasty bitter and pointless things on a site like this...and I feel like an ass for commenting but since I was quoted..how could I not reply...
so yeah..there it is...

in other news...how about that local sports team and their win and or lost.

Lyla..thanks for that.

Tony wrote:

My question is this: Since when does "satirizing a poem" mean "bullying the poet?" My poems are not me. I am not my poems. I've had poems of mine satirized. Sometimes it stung, but I try not to take it personally. The separation of "my poem" and "me as poet" is important if I'm ever going to take feedback seriously. Otherwise, I'd be perpetually offended anytime someone criticized one of my poems. And I'd only ever listen to feedback that reinforced my vision and made me feel good.

I couldn't agree more with you Tony!

Lyla wrote:

Me, personally, I've received death threats and was told to make sure I lock my doors....This is because I enjoy messing with tea-baggers by providing evidence on why they are wrong...

I adore you!

electrictiger wrote:

Lyla wrote: Me, personally, I've received death threats and was told to make sure I lock my doors....This is because I enjoy messing with tea-baggers by providing evidence on why they are wrong... I adore you!

i second that

Shucks... guys I <3 you too!

I'm too late, he's already deleted himself ... sorry.... passed himself away.

Peace, no more war. STOP the BULLYING NOW !.
We once had a unique Harmonious site, the envy of many others, What have we now become?.

A sad reflection of society and the world today.