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fogglethorpe Who knew we would get this far?


                 
Joined: Jan 15, 2008 Posts: 6182 Credits: 546 Location: Sonoran Desert

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Posted: Mon Jun 11 15:10:37 EDT 2012 Post subject: Four Causes |
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I. Material
If it’s metal or stone,
if it’s flesh around bone
animated with some earthly ghost,
what we fail to address
with an endless regress
is the matter that matters the most.
II. Formal
If it’s fire refined,
perpendicular lined,
and arranged as we humans see fit,
we have made it obey,
but it’s passing away
slow and sure, as per entropy’s writ.
III. Efficient/Sufficient
When a problem persists,
a solution exists-
we discover it when we’re astute;
and it begs, by design,
a designer divine-
which requires great faith to dispute.
IV. Telos
With efficiency, form,
and materials, born
are contingencies noble and grand;
But a cause without cause?
That should cause us to pause
and consider the ultimate hand.
Copyright © 2012 by Hugh Lemma- All rights reserved
_________________ "What the hell is this? For cryin' out loud, somebody throw a pie!" - Peter Griffin |
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fogglethorpe Who knew we would get this far?


                 
Joined: Jan 15, 2008 Posts: 6182 Credits: 546 Location: Sonoran Desert

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Posted: Tue Jun 12 9:06:21 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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Notes: This piece is an experiment. I took Aristotle's concept of Four Causes (and a little thermodynamics, which also helps explain changes in an object) and tied it into Creationism.
I am interested in knowing if I took too big of a leap..in other words, is the poem understandable or not?
And is the form too "sing-songy" for the subject matter?
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FuchsiaFestival! Poet


    
Joined: Feb 10, 2011 Posts: 1028 Credits: 1 Location: in the oasis

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Posted: Wed Jun 13 7:36:41 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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Very interesting piece. For me, I didn't necessarily "feel" a "sing-songy" form; it almost seems serious although hopeful for me. I had to read it a couple of times, because it is fairly esoteric, and I had to look up the definition for the word "contingency." I am not familiar with Aristotle's concept of the "Four Causes," so I am lacking knowledge in order to fully understand this poem, but these Four Causes that are placed within the poem seem leveled by grandeur, an importance although we question it.
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fogglethorpe Who knew we would get this far?


                 
Joined: Jan 15, 2008 Posts: 6182 Credits: 546 Location: Sonoran Desert

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Posted: Wed Jun 13 8:32:41 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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Hi Sammi..thanks for the response.
Aristotle is my favorite of the Greek philosophers. His ideas about the objectivity of reality were revolutionary at the time.
Four Causes is simply his explanation for existence and change. I tied that into the idea of Creationism and the existence of God. By "contingencies" I meant beings or objects that exist because they were created by something or someone else. The ultimate conclusion is that there must be a prime mover, or causeless cause, or necessary being (i.e. God) who made it all..unless one wants to defend an endless regress of causes, which seems preposterous. Matter exists because it exists? That doesn't work for me.
Sorry to ramble. That's my best explanation.
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NikeAGoGo Galileo is laughing at you from on high


  
Joined: Apr 14, 2006 Posts: 856 Credits: 105 Location: Northern Va.

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Posted: Wed Jun 13 11:32:24 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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!!!Woot!!! First off Applause for a clever construction.  Second, I got what you were saying, not hard especially since its title and the subtitles of the poem. thanks for making that clear. Third..I really enjoyed it however, I felt you need some better wording for the final cause..the actual purpose. While you get there..you really don't get there.. and in some ways I felt cheated, both in sentiment and in wording..perhaps its the cause x3 plus pause. that just made it over the top for me personally.
Other then that brilliant!
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fogglethorpe Who knew we would get this far?


                 
Joined: Jan 15, 2008 Posts: 6182 Credits: 546 Location: Sonoran Desert

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Posted: Wed Jun 13 11:46:04 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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Lyla..thanks for that.
I understand that the repetitive alliteration might be heavy handed..I wrestled with that when I was writing this.
And since "telos" is purpose, it makes sense for the reader to expect it to be addressed. I will consider how I might edit this, and post the results here.
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NikeAGoGo Galileo is laughing at you from on high


  
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Posted: Wed Jun 13 12:06:25 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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Sweet!  thanks!!!
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Posted: Wed Jun 13 12:11:01 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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oh also I don't think its the alliteration I had a problem with. Reading over it I like the quickening tempo..but i didn't like was the repetitive use of cause. I think that's what bothered me. another thing that might be nice is throwing in a little assonance.. you can still get a faster tempo but without being overt. But that's just my MHO.. so..
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fogglethorpe Who knew we would get this far?


                 
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Posted: Wed Jun 13 12:38:14 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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Understood. Input like yours is the reason I workshop poems like this. I think your suggestions helped make this better.
How about this for the final stanza?
With efficiency, form,
and materials, born
are contingencies noble and grand;
there's a cause without cause,
and we ought to take pause
to consider the ultimate plan.
_________________ "What the hell is this? For cryin' out loud, somebody throw a pie!" - Peter Griffin |
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fogglethorpe Who knew we would get this far?


                 
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Posted: Wed Jun 13 12:41:51 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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I think the edit is more focused, and also addresses the overuse of "cause" and your suggested use of assonance.
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NikeAGoGo Galileo is laughing at you from on high


  
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Posted: Wed Jun 13 13:26:42 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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much better!!!!
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Posted: Wed Jun 13 16:59:27 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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I hope it was okay..I was thinking more about your piece.. what about something like..
are contingencies noble and grand;
(4 syllables needed) a plan without cause,
we ought to take pause
and consider the ultimate hand.
(I had written "but if there is"...just to add a beat..granted the meaning felt lost to me.. but for some reason having the plan in between pulls out the grand and hand..as well as ties everything in tighter. plus I like P's and sharp C's together..
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fogglethorpe Who knew we would get this far?


                 
Joined: Jan 15, 2008 Posts: 6182 Credits: 546 Location: Sonoran Desert

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Posted: Thu Jun 14 12:03:05 EDT 2012 Post subject: Re: Four Causes |
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I see what you mean. This is a difficult stanza, because I want it to make a point without sounding preachy.
I like the phrase "causeless cause" to describe an ultimate reason for existence, but I had to change it slightly to fit the meter.
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